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Author Topic: The start is the end of the middle.
Blackout
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Answer me this,

philosophy riddle:

What is the start is the end of the middle?

- Blackout

--------------------
You are not your job, your titles, your possessions, your degrees, your lovers, your relationships, your place of residence, your social security number, your ID, your bills, your worries, your bank account, your age or your body. You are the timeless being that created & perceives itself through those things, and you have the power to play or not play that game. When someone asks me "what do you do?" looking for some title to pin me down, I laugh and say "EVERYTHING!" - Blackout

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Bluhevenly
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D. both a and b

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"Dear lady...you are new to the scene. When you have been with us a little longer, nothing will amaze you." --Willy Wonka, Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator

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Blackout
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Hmmm.. interesting, but incorrect.

There is an actual answer to this.

Try again.

--------------------
You are not your job, your titles, your possessions, your degrees, your lovers, your relationships, your place of residence, your social security number, your ID, your bills, your worries, your bank account, your age or your body. You are the timeless being that created & perceives itself through those things, and you have the power to play or not play that game. When someone asks me "what do you do?" looking for some title to pin me down, I laugh and say "EVERYTHING!" - Blackout

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Shostie
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Um, is it me or is there one too many verbs in this question? I don't see any conjunctions to merit a second verb.

--------------------
Maestra is indeed a sexy geek.

"Primitive humans make tools; computer-designed, high-tech hand tools." -program description from The History Channel's Modern Marvels

"I wish God were alive to see this." -Homer Simpson

"And my stage directions make no sense. How is it possible for me to wear clown make up AND be sober all at once?" -Davan MacIntire

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Vinas
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Replace an "is" with an "of".

The start of the end of the middle is the end of the end of the start, since after the end of the end of the start comes the start of the start of the middle, and once something starts to start at the start of the middle, it has started on the path to the end of the end of the middle.

[ 08-31-2002, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Vinas ]

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"Vinny uncaringly hurts peoples feelings. He's like a mean robot."

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Bluhevenly
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Put me in the middle of a couple of you and I'll show you where the start is.

[ 08-31-2002, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Bluhevenly ]

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"Dear lady...you are new to the scene. When you have been with us a little longer, nothing will amaze you." --Willy Wonka, Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator

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Vinas
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"What is the start of the end of the middle?" is what I believe he meant.

[ 08-31-2002, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Vinas ]

--------------------
"Vinny uncaringly hurts peoples feelings. He's like a mean robot."

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Bluhevenly
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quote:
What is the start is the end of the middle?
I have given this serious thought, and have never heard this riddle before. At first I was REALLY puzzled because I thought of this riddle in the western linear pattern of thinking. Then I remembered that some cultures do have a more spiral concept of time and history. I was thinking about this as in image in my head. Say you take a pen and you were about to draw a spiral. You always start in the middle and continue drawing around and around the original point to make a spiral. Now trace back the way you came, all the way to the middle where you started. You will be back at the start which is the end of the middle (of the spiral). If this doesn't make sense, draw a spiral.. and perhaps you will see what I visualized. Some cultures see history as circular (spiral) rather than as a linear timeline. The same things keep passing us by, there is no one start and one end.. it is spiral.

[ 08-31-2002, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Bluhevenly ]

--------------------
"Dear lady...you are new to the scene. When you have been with us a little longer, nothing will amaze you." --Willy Wonka, Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator

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Blackout
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Very good thinking Blue... you are right on the money but missed the exact answer. An infinite spiral is correct in a way because... well, you had the idea right, but the answer I was looking for was the symbol for infinity.. or the number 8. The symbol for infinity is the number 8 turned sideways, and the start is the end of the middle.

You have figured the riddle.

- Blackout

--------------------
You are not your job, your titles, your possessions, your degrees, your lovers, your relationships, your place of residence, your social security number, your ID, your bills, your worries, your bank account, your age or your body. You are the timeless being that created & perceives itself through those things, and you have the power to play or not play that game. When someone asks me "what do you do?" looking for some title to pin me down, I laugh and say "EVERYTHING!" - Blackout

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Vinas
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And unlocked the power therein?

--------------------
"Vinny uncaringly hurts peoples feelings. He's like a mean robot."

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Bluhevenly
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I've got a golden ticket!!!! I think Blackout could be Willy Wonka.. why not? I'll be that bitch Veruca Salt.

--------------------
"Dear lady...you are new to the scene. When you have been with us a little longer, nothing will amaze you." --Willy Wonka, Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator

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Vinas
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I call the fat kid.

--------------------
"Vinny uncaringly hurts peoples feelings. He's like a mean robot."

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Shostie
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I'll be Gene Wilder.

--------------------
Maestra is indeed a sexy geek.

"Primitive humans make tools; computer-designed, high-tech hand tools." -program description from The History Channel's Modern Marvels

"I wish God were alive to see this." -Homer Simpson

"And my stage directions make no sense. How is it possible for me to wear clown make up AND be sober all at once?" -Davan MacIntire

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Blackout
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Willy Wonka IS Gene Wilder you daffy bastard. And I am playing him.

Didn't you notice he has a very cool HAT as well.

- Blackout

[ 09-02-2002, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Blackout ]

--------------------
You are not your job, your titles, your possessions, your degrees, your lovers, your relationships, your place of residence, your social security number, your ID, your bills, your worries, your bank account, your age or your body. You are the timeless being that created & perceives itself through those things, and you have the power to play or not play that game. When someone asks me "what do you do?" looking for some title to pin me down, I laugh and say "EVERYTHING!" - Blackout

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Vinas
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Don't you see the perfect hatular synergy? It's all coming together...

--------------------
"Vinny uncaringly hurts peoples feelings. He's like a mean robot."

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hookt up
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Pharris can be all the Oompa-Loompa's..

[Big Grin]

Jeff

--------------------
Give a man a fish, he owes you a fish. Teach a man to fish and you give up your monopoly on fisheries.

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Bluhevenly
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quote:
Pharris can be all the Oompa-Loompa's..

Pharris would be too busy chasing Veruca and Violet.

--------------------
"Dear lady...you are new to the scene. When you have been with us a little longer, nothing will amaze you." --Willy Wonka, Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator

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Samsynn
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I think that Veruca and Violet are a bit OLD for Pharris, don't you

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Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Shostie
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Well damnit. If I can't be Gene Wilder, can I atleast do a cameo as the black sherrif from Blazing Saddles?

--------------------
Maestra is indeed a sexy geek.

"Primitive humans make tools; computer-designed, high-tech hand tools." -program description from The History Channel's Modern Marvels

"I wish God were alive to see this." -Homer Simpson

"And my stage directions make no sense. How is it possible for me to wear clown make up AND be sober all at once?" -Davan MacIntire

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crApp
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I cauld of sworn on my life the answer was Harminoff, but oh well
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HypnoticDonald
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Gene Wilder is a GOD. I want his babies.

--------------------
Sometimes I make art just to murder it.

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Glyde
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The black sheriff from blazing saddles IS god! By golly I swear I'd stake my gold and my life on it.

--------------------
I am dumb and Cuban. Help me.
-Blackout

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Vinas
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It's Springtime... [Sucker]

--------------------
"Vinny uncaringly hurts peoples feelings. He's like a mean robot."

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Shostie
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For Hitler in Germany, Vinas?

Jesus. How'd we go from the infinity symbol to Mel Brooks films? Perhaps it is their timeless nature.

--------------------
Maestra is indeed a sexy geek.

"Primitive humans make tools; computer-designed, high-tech hand tools." -program description from The History Channel's Modern Marvels

"I wish God were alive to see this." -Homer Simpson

"And my stage directions make no sense. How is it possible for me to wear clown make up AND be sober all at once?" -Davan MacIntire

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Rachael
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Funny, I would have thought that the start of the end of the middle would be the beginning of the end.
-Rachael

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Blackout
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Rachel! Jan Brady!

Welcome to the boards!

There's no end baby... it just keeps going and going and going and....

Well... going...

- Blackout

--------------------
You are not your job, your titles, your possessions, your degrees, your lovers, your relationships, your place of residence, your social security number, your ID, your bills, your worries, your bank account, your age or your body. You are the timeless being that created & perceives itself through those things, and you have the power to play or not play that game. When someone asks me "what do you do?" looking for some title to pin me down, I laugh and say "EVERYTHING!" - Blackout

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ShaynaMaidelah
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So if infinity is finite and it never ends, does it mean it never has a specific beginning (it is infinite on both ends)?

Oh darn, my eyes have crossed......

-Shayna

--------------------
Semper Ubi, Sub Ubi:
Always wear underwear.

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Rachael
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That's right Blackout, you can't get rid of a Brady. lol Glad to be here.
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Vinas
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I've always considered the infinite as having begun somewhere in the middle, which is why it's infinite. For whatever reason, it needs to completely go through its' existence before it can cease to exist, but something went wrong and it's stuck in an endless loop, middle to middle, forgoing the beginning and the end.

--------------------
"Vinny uncaringly hurts peoples feelings. He's like a mean robot."

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Lindsi
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juuussttt kidding [Embarrassed]

[ 10-23-2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Lindsi ]

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I tried to give you Summer, but I'm Winter. I wish I could make you Spring, but I Fall so hard.

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Lindsi
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WHOOOOOOSSSSHHH!!!! # 50!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yay I hit 50 posts!! (this is where we need a emoticon doing the cabbage patch!!!) *cough* hint hint *cough*

[Party On ]

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I tried to give you Summer, but I'm Winter. I wish I could make you Spring, but I Fall so hard.

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Lindsi
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Yay! Now I'm an official member! Time to go get [Trashed] . Eh hehh.. eh hem. *straightens tie* So at what point in time exactly do I get a nifty cool name?

Oh, and .. nevermind. [Razz]

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I tried to give you Summer, but I'm Winter. I wish I could make you Spring, but I Fall so hard.

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Vinas
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You know, ever since Avril Lavigne started the damned women-with-ugly-ties trend up here, I've felt like just grabbing them and pulling till something snaps, be it bone or fabric.

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"Vinny uncaringly hurts peoples feelings. He's like a mean robot."

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Lindsi
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YA KNOW!!! What's f*d up is ever since 9th grade, I've worn a tie. Not everyday, but I started wearing a tie every once in a while and everyone would look at me wierd and ask where I was going after school and whatnot, then that little bitch comes up on the scene and starts that fuckin' trend and now whenever I wear a tie I get "Hey Avril" or something along that lines of that. ARGH that pisses me off!!! [Mad]

On another note... I'm gonna go see The Ring now [Embarrassed] )

Bye peepeez

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I tried to give you Summer, but I'm Winter. I wish I could make you Spring, but I Fall so hard.

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Mark
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When I first read the riddle, I immediately came up with the same answer as Rachel, but then I realized my mistake. The start of the end of the middle is NOT the moment that the middle ends, the start of the end of the middle is the beginning of the middle. As soon as the middle starts, it is ending, in the same way that as soon as you begin your life, you begin dying.

After coming up with this answer, I read through the posts again and realized that you didn't make a mistake and did indeed mean, "What is the start is the end of the middle". The answer you gave only makes sense if you consider the middle to be the start. Since the symbol for infinity is not linear, the start is undefined and becomes subjective. Some might perceive the start as being the left side of the symbol. Some might perceive it as the right. Therefore, I think the riddle should read, "What is the start is the end of the middle if you consider the middle to be the start."

And on a side note, I don't believe that infinity has a beginning at all. It seems that people have no problem accepting the idea that time will continue on forever into the future, but have a hard time grasping that time also continues forever into the past.

Now that I've thorougly confused myself and probably others, I think I'll lay off this philosophy stuff! [Smile]

[ 10-26-2002, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: Mark ]

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Spiral out, keep going.

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Blackout
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Well, the little bump in the road we run into when considering infinity and it not having a start is this:

If time is infinite in both directions, then there was an INFINITE amount of time in the past before you were born, and if there was/is an infinite amount of time before your birth, you could never be born, because we could never reach the date of your birth. So somewhere, in some system, somehow, time has to be a defigned linear system I think.

Or perhaps time is just a mechanism of the brain.

- Blackout

--------------------
You are not your job, your titles, your possessions, your degrees, your lovers, your relationships, your place of residence, your social security number, your ID, your bills, your worries, your bank account, your age or your body. You are the timeless being that created & perceives itself through those things, and you have the power to play or not play that game. When someone asks me "what do you do?" looking for some title to pin me down, I laugh and say "EVERYTHING!" - Blackout

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